website menu by Css3Menu.com
The Grass is Always Greener...
A War Between the Star and the Guild
Let’s face it – we all get the itch. Sometimes we get bored. Sometimes we want a change. Sometimes we need a break. But whatever the reason, we just want to try another game. After playing through yet another grinding achievement, I needed a break and shut down Guild Wars 2 (GW2). I then booted up Star Wars: The Old Republic (SW:TOR) for the first time in seven (7) years and played that. I remembered why I quit that game – couldn’t get past a certain encounter – and how to get around it – somehow my companion was turned off. While playing SW:TOR, I began to notice differences between the games and while there are some things which SW:TOR gets right, others GW2 gets right. I thought a comparison between the two would be interesting.
Business Model
When both of these games were initially released, both were pay-to-play. This made sense a decade ago. Both are top-tier MMO games. Both have a large following – Guild Wars from the success from the first game and Star Wars from the franchise. However as the MMO population went from a handful of titles to hundreds of titles – many of high quality – the business changed and both went to a free-to-play model. Both games generally have the same perks and restrictions based on how much real world cash one is willing to pay: Expansion packs for GW and a monthly subscription for SWTOR.
Winner: It’s a push – no winner. The differences are there but not enough to favor one over the other.
Friendliness of players
One of the reputations that GW2 has is the friendliness of players – towards each other and towards new players. With the exception the PvP element, this reputation is deserved. With SW:TOR, I found that the players were not as helpful – not as open. It’s not that they were hostile or anything, but more neutral. It may be indifference. It maybe that the chat window is not as friendly or as large. But whatever the reason:
Winner: Guild Wars 2
Wiki
GW2 has a wonderful wiki. There are plenty of articles. New content is updated fairly quickly, usually within a day or two. ArenaNet even made it so one could access the wiki in-game - “/wiki”.
SW:TOR on the other hand, has no dedicated wiki. I’ve found three (3) sites which have that purpose but certain things simply are not explained beyond the basics. They feel like projects which were started by well-meaning people but quit once the enthusiasm wore off or the project became too large.
Winner: Guild Wars 2
Grind
For the uninitiated, an MMO grind is playing a game – typically the same content over and over again – in order to accomplish something – typically an achievement or some specialized gear. For a long time, neither game had a grinding element. Leveling up is fairly quick. Gear is relatively easy to obtain or craft. Achievements more or less made sense.
However in recent months, Guild Wars 2 has had this annoying tendency to make achievements more grindy. The first example of this was the Hungry Hal achievement – Feed the hermit 50 apples.
I have a character from each profession and each character has done the story and seasons and all map completions. It used to be that by the end of the 3rd walk-through, most normal achievements would have been completed with only specific ones left or a couple of stragglers. Typically by the 5th or 7th walk-through, all achievements have been done.
These days however, even after going through story completion and map completion for all nine (9) characters, there are a substantial number of otherwise achievable achievements which I have not achieved. This grind is annoying. After nine (9) walk-throughs, I’ve seen enough. I want to move on. So do I stop achievement hunting or grind for more?
SW:TOR has achievements as one would expect. However these are more limited to those which one would obtain playing the game normally. Kill 25 imps on Alderaan. Kill 100 enemies with Blizz as your companion. Complete The False Emperor Flashpoint.
Winner: SW:TOR
Trading Post/Galactic Trade Network
Ah yes. Selling of items to other players. A must in any MMO game. But the way each game handles purchases in game is different. Guild Wars charges a 5% listing fee and a 10% seller fee for each transaction. If you take the item down before it sells, you lose 5%. If the item sells, you recoup only 85% of the price paid.
This may sound harsh but the reason for this is to discourage day-trading – the process of buying an item solely for the purpose of reselling it at a higher price in the future.
So you list an item and get only 85% of the purchase price and the item will stay up until the items sells. - be it one minute or one year.
Star Wars uses a different model. There is a minimal charge to list an item – which is lost should you pull the item down prematurely. The item is posted for a limited length of time – no longer than 72 hours. If the item sells, SW will take an 8% fee – which can be reduced via guild perks. If the item does not sell, the listing fee is refunded along with the item in question. In fact, the only time the listing fee is NOT refunded is when the seller pulls the item.
This has advantages and disadvantages. An advantage for GW is that items are almost always available and a continual supply means there will be constant price drops. The SW advantage is that there is scarcity and that will keep value on items as things will not lingering for a long time.
I really wonder if there is a significant server impact between these methods. Single use tonics sell for only a couple of copper and there are literally millions available. Same with raw materials and their refined counterparts. There are items which are overly listed which may never sell. Millions of dead items taking up space can’t be all that helpful for server optimization.
Finally, SW does not have a bid feature. While some bidding can be desirable, outrageous and silly bids simply won’t be fulfilled. Those bids and coins in storage can’t help either. Who is going to sell a legendary weapon for 100 gold – and how many of those bids are there?
Winner: SW:TOR. This is a close call and could go either way. The bid feature is a glaring omission however I find that I do not use it all that often. For me, the 8% vs 15% fee is pretty significant and one that can’t be easily ignored.
Mounts
Ah mounts. A way of trans-versing ground at a much faster clip than running. ArenaNet has stated that when designing mounts for GW2, wanted something more than horses with different skins. ArenaNet wanted mounts to feel special – and they are. Each mount has a separate ability and each has its own purpose.
SW on the other hand has a lousy mount system. They basically are speeders with different skins. Even the movement is convoluted. You unlock speeders at level 10 – with only an 80% max speed. Then this increases by 10% for every 10 levels. Very convoluted indeed.
Winner: GW2. Although to be fair, there is something about seeing all the speeders and mounts running around. Whereas in GW2 there are only a few dozen different skins, in SW, there are hundreds of speeder and mount skins making for a more interesting visual experience. It’s just not enough to overcome the silliness of a max speed restriction.
Nodes
In Guild Wars, any character can mine any of the three (3) types of nodes – provided the proper tools and levels are met. In SW, there are four (4) types of nodes and one must have trained in the proper use to mine said node and no tools are required – infinite or otherwise. One can have a maximum of three (3) trained gathering skills – so this tends to encourage the use of other characters.
Winner: SW. The process of choosing gathering skills makes gathering more of a choice instead of just a universal setting for all.
Crafting
Oh, crafting. Most games have it and most games do not do a good job implementing it. I’ve always thought of crafting as a profession where a character never leaves town and just creates weapons and armor. A blacksmith would pay people to seek out raw materials and refines them for crafting into sell-able goods. So I can see a knight paying a blacksmith X gold to create a broadsword with specific stats which will be delivered in a week.
The problem with time-gating is that the character is otherwise unavailable for other tasks. Most games do not queue tasks, and there is no way to shunt in a quick project. The closest implementation to this would be the scribe profession in GW2.
But let’s be real – how much crafting does a player do? Not much really. Why craft level 35 gear when in about 1-2 hours of game play, one will receive drops which are better than what was crafted?
Winner: It is a push. Neither game makes crafting desirable until max level.
How should crafting be handled? I would make it so most critters do not drop gear. Most would drop gold or junk Some would drop crafting materials. Only big bosses would drop “gear” and even then, those should be broken down for a unique component. Very rarely would one simply replace their own gear with that of a fallen enemy.
This would give incentive to craft gear. Your level 20 gear becomes obsolete at level 30 so you should get back to town and craft new gear.
Griefing
For the uninitiated, griefing is the process in which a player or two does something to impede your game play. Most games today actively do things to prevent griefing – which is a good thing. The closest thing Guild Wars 2 has is the Octovine – where a player or two could kill the East Octovine before the others could be killed. The Octovine will then recover and in some instances, that would be enough prevent successful completion of the meta.
Star Wars has their own version of griefing. Many tasks require you to gather X things or destroy Y objects. Unlike GW2 where every person has their own version so multiple people can gather or destroy simultaneously, SW has it so only one person can gather or destroy. This means one has to wait for the item to respawn. This can take some time and if someone else comes along and beats you to it, you are out of luck and must wait again, or hope to find another node.
Winner: GW2 – although both games have minimal griefing.
Story
One of the main reasons we play MMO games is for the story. Players want an engaging story. Players want compelling plots and plot twists. Guild Wars delivers that. How many foresaw the destruction of Lion’s Arch? How many players expected to die during Path of Fire?
Players also enjoy good humor and funny lines. Didn’t you laugh when Taimi said “That’s not how death works!” Didn’t Phlunt’s interactions with Taimi seem amusing? Don’t you like it when Rytlock is around – knowing he is going to bring some comedy to the situation?
In short, Guild Wars has a good story. But it is nothing compared to Star Wars. Whereas Guild Wars has one story which applies to all nine (9) professions, SW has eight professions with eight different profession stories. Yes, each planet one visits has its own planetary story but there is also a class story and most of them are really good.
Add to the mix that each story has several options to pursue, and one is encouraged to try all of them. Not just goodie-two-shoes Jedi or really-evil-Sith but Dark Jedi and Light Sith are encouraged. Some of the choices lead to very interesting outcomes. Having choices that mean something make the game more memorable and interesting to play.
Winner: Star Wars
Combat:
Ah combat. Where MMO’s tend to be judged rather than on other elements like enjoying the game. Guild Wars made a distinct decision to allow for only ten (10) slots means that choices need to be made. Do you choose a weak spell but having quick recharge time versus one which is stronger but can only be used once per combat? Having only played Guild Wars, I saw this as normal.
SW changed that line of thinking. Combat gets confusing when one has thirty (30) or forty (40) options are available. But one eventually will find a comfortable routine. But then one realizes something.
Normal critters die pretty quickly – so quickly that one never really gets into their combat routine. Even veterans don’t survive a handful of skills. It’s only when you face champ-level minions that a sequence of spells actually can mean something.
Combat in Guild Wars tends to be complex. Lots of stats and each of the nine (9) professions has multiple specializations leading to several interesting builds. Star Wars on the other hand has a more simplistic combat system and each profession tends to have similar spells – varying only by damage and recharge time. For instance, all professions have something akin to a firestorm spell in Guild Wars. The Bounty Hunter calls it Death from Above. The Jedi Knight calls it Smash. The Imperial Agent calls it Orbital Strike.
Winner: GW2. That combat isn’t basically reworded, reanimated, or even re-imagined in SW means combat is pretty basic. GW2 has different imaginings of combat with each profession. While I would like the Engineer to be more “engineery” or the Revenant to be something more than just a weaker version of a Warrior, it is better than basically the same routine across different classes.
Guilds
At first glance, this should easily be in Guild Wars’ corner. After all, it is Guild Wars where guilds are part of the game and Star Wars where one gets the feeling that one is alone in a galaxy. The reality though it different. For the most part, guilds are treated the same. Both have guild events. There is an initial cost to creating a guild. It is expensive to grow and decorate a guild. Most guilds want more members who basically leech off of whatever the guild does.
Winner: It’s a push.
Housing
Again, at first glance, this should easily be in Star Wars’ corner. SW has player housing. The closest thing GW has to player housing is the home instance which one can play a long time without knowing one even has a home instance, much less improve it.
But when one considers the view that player housing is a one-person guild, then there really isn’t too much more which needs to be said.
Winner: SW. Not only because SW has actual housing but one can give permissions for anyone to enter their house (Key Rings) or make their house publicly accessible.
Sexuality
This just needs to be discussed – sex. There, I said it. MMO players skew male and therefore there is a push to have exhibitionist traits in female characters and other sexual teases to titillate players albeit in a very light manner. Throw in the constant feminist calls to cover up female characters and you have a balancing act that all publishers must follow.
Guild Wars goes out of its way to avoid having female characters showing lots of skin. The closest thing GW gets to exhibitionism is bikini underwear which has no armor value and isn’t very appealing. On the other hand, GW loves to remind us of the romance between Lady Kas and Marjory.
SW on the other hand is a dark place. Women walking around in scantily-clad outfits is not only common but encouraged. Princess Leia’s slave outfit is unlocked simply by grouping up with others. This isn’t exactly too far from reality either. When jobs are scarce and women either can not support themselves or marry someone who will support them, what do women do? They utilize their assets. OK- bad pun. So having strip clubs in SW makes perfect sense – adds to the realism and dankness of the galaxy.
SW also has romance options. One can marry one of their companions if the choices made follow that path. Supposedly there is gay romance but I have not seen it so far.
Winner: Depends on player preference.
Jumping and Jumping Puzzles
I would like to know what is the fascination with jumping puzzles. What sadist thinks that players will find timed jumping exercises to be fun, entertaining and enjoyable? Sure, many players can do jumping puzzles but not everyone has the dexterity, proper internet connection, proper equipment or the patience to succeed.
SW has jumping puzzles too – only they are quests to find datacrons. Whereas Datacrons are quests to get to them, each one gives an account-wide bonus and there really is no reason to visit them again. GW has jumping puzzles which not only give you an achievement but also may need to revisit over and over again.
Winner: It’s a push. A once-per-account quest is acceptable if the rewards are worthwhile. A permanent account-wide stat boost qualifies for that. However, jumping in SW is annoying and agonizing. I’ve given up several datacron quests because I could not make one simple pipe-to-pipe jump.
Farming
A very thin line exists between farming and grinding. The only way I would think would be the end result. Farming will generate money or materials or something of value while grinding is for an achievement or leveling up. But apart from that distinction, they are roughly the same. For this purpose, we shall define farming as obtaining currency.
In both games, it is fairly easy to gain currency. Yes – there is the real world cash for virtual currency option but even for those who do not wish to use real world money, virtual currency is fairly easy to obtain.
The only real question is what does one spend this currency on? Skins? Legendary Weapons? Ultimate mods? Only the player can answer that question and that will determine how much farming one needs to do.
Winner: SW. It is pretty trivial to gain currency in SW while the rate of gain in GW is about average.
Quality of Life issues
Teleport to Friend: GW has it. SW does not.
Teleport to Mission: SW has it. GW does not. Although this can be mitigated by partying up and using Teleport to Friend, one can share a mission to a party member in SW.
Pressure to Upgrade: SW has it. Quite a bit of it actually. Becomes annoying after awhile. GW does not have a lot of pressure to purchase expansion packs.
In GW, unless specifically mentioned, things are account-based. In SW, unless specifically mentioned, things are character-based. It is not just a cartel item where you purchase it for one character and then purchase an upgrade to make it account-wide. Your friends list is character-based. So if you have a buddy – each character must friend all your buddies other characters. Same with guilds – each character must be invited to the guild. So annoying.
In GW, when in a party and changing maps, the party will generally get to the same instance. In SW, more of then not, party members are transported to different instances and then one must shuttle to the other. How annoying.
Winner: GW
Conclusions
Comparisons like this are always subjective. When one says something is “better” than something else, what does “better” actually mean? Objectivity is important with comparisons.
For our purposes, it does appear that GW is “better” than SW. GW checks more boxes. But again, what does better mean? GW is a serious (hardcore) MMO with casual elements. SW is a casual MMO with serious elements. Both games are fun and enjoyable. Both have good story telling. Both games are polished.
Wish List
It is difficult to conclude a comparison like this without offering an idea or two.
Fishing: I know it is been mentioned before and I know that for some reason, the concept of waiting around for a fish to bite is popular. I can understand fishing in real life. You are in nature. It is quiet and stress-free. You can meditate. Basically you can relax.
Fishing in the virtual world though? OK, one can have discussions and casually hang out without making noises which would spook the fish. But waiting for an indeterminate length of time for something to happen? What about achievements? For those achievement hunters who want to catch all species of fish, how could this be done in a fair and fun but realistic manner?
API: This new trend of pushing data out via an application versus a website is really taking off. This shifts the costs of developing from the company providing the data to the users of said data. (Here is the data, you deal with it.) This also reduces bandwidth costs by removing all extraneous data from being transmitted. Users are liking APIs because of all the cool and interesting things which can be done with it. We even managed to get a Trading Post Express Helper written.
But the API for GW can be better and offer more things. Could be a little more user-friendly, especially in terms of items. What is item 19697 anyway?
On the other hand, SW could use an API. Does anything more need to be said?
All material on this website is covered under copyright laws 2011-2020. But you knew that already, didn't you?